I was meaning it for each individual on spawn, not as a map-wide timer at the beginning of the match. And that addresses ALL the questions, not just the second and third.

1. You don't deploy into a redzone. Just like you can't do that now. You deploy into a yellow zone. When you spawn there, EVERY time you spawn there, you get the yellow zone timer giving you a minute and a half before the redzone timer kicks in.

2. That would have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. On Manus Peak, for example, I think bringing the yellow zone further down the hill would help, so people have to come further forward before they're safe and able to collect WP and kills.

3. The yellow zone will be a safe area for about 2 minutes if you include the redzone timer, giving you time to see where the enemy is, what they're doing, and find a way around them.

As I understand it the after match awards of both Skill Points and ISK are derived stats drawn form primarily (tho not exclusively) War Points earned. Assuming this is in fact the case than the removal of War Points for any action taken from/against the Yellow Zone would remove all incentive for 'redlining' aside from pure grief play which I don't think there's any way to actually eliminate but I see on reason to reward either.

You do make an interesting point regarding the "spawn to certain death" aspect. On the one hand that's not really very different from how things are now when redlined but the current method isn't optimal for High Sec either.

I think perhaps part of the solution to this is physical map features. If there were a spawn area which would not kill you no matter how long you stay there but which would also provide zero options for aggressive action (for example a small structure with only one side open facing away from the battlefield.

This is a idea first draft of the top of my head so likely needs refinement but perhaps map design can address this problem.

As it stands we need something which will end
A) Spawn camping the starting areas (aka 'redlining')
B) Sniping/Tank sniping from within the protection of the red zone
C) Instant, or near instant, death on spawn


I still feel like the removal of rewards for actions taking into or from within the redzone is a key component, but clearly more refinement is needed to address the whole scope of the issue.

Cheers,
Cross

I think this solution shows promise, I do wondering about the coding aspects but at a guess it doesn't seem like a huge increase on client load (I am uncertain). I really like the element of flux it would provide to the battle while still being patterned enough to allow for tactical play/adaptation.

Also having something like this involved would provide a greater possibility for balanced yet asymmetric map creation and I would quite thoroughly enjoy that.

How would you handle the MCC as it passes over the opposing base? Also what sort of shots would these be, are we talking precision strikes from the MCC or a different form of fire unique to it's mobile sweep/suppression role?

One final thought, if this were included, and the upcoming commander role were able to effect rate of orbit (perhaps even having a mechanic where the opposing MCC were made primary but at the expense of no ground fire during that time) that could add some interesting nuance to the mechanic even outside of the quickmatch play in High Sec.

I'll think more about this idea but on first blush I'm quite liking it.
Cheers,
Cross

I also don't like this idea, as it takes several issues that are legitimate issues, and attempts to "fix" them with a blanket solution which really wouldn't fix them at all.

First, LAV repairing. This is an incredibly easy fix and is something you can see addressed successfully in any number of games, including Planetside 2 most recently. Simply make any non-enemy damage to friendly targets award no points for repairing. It's as simple as that.

HAV sniping from atop some vantage point is another legitimate issue, but once again, the issue is that HAVs can just sit someplace and spam fire down all day. As with sniping, if this were changed you'd still have HAVs sniping ad nauseam from safe locations, only rather than being behind a redline, they'd be right next to it. Just shooting from the hip, but two potential solutions to this would include a certain degree of scattering for HAV weapons that makes them less reliable vs. infantry at longer ranges, and for vehicles to have limited ammunition (with some mechanic to support vehicle resupplies, akin to infantry resupply). This is just a very off-handed idea about this issue though and not something I'd necessarily hang my hat on. I'd simply say that there are other solutions to this issue which would have a real effect on the issue of tanks just parking themselves someplace far off and spamming fire down someplace all game.

Sniping from behind the redline similarly avoids entirely the issue with sniping, in that you can easily hit and kill people with a sniper rifle from the max range of that rifle. Sniping, something I've written about myself at length, is a major problem-area with this game. It needs many changes to it in order to bring it in-line with other forms of infantry combat. One side-effect of some of the changes I've proposed -- that is, bullet travel time, scope sway, and bullet drop over time -- is that sniping from a far-off distance like the redline is in many games relative to the fighting would be much more difficult. Sniping from closer-in, where the effects of such changes would be minimized, would be something snipers would be more inclined to do. In any case, the issue here is with sniping in general.

Overall I find this change totally unnecessary. I think magically making kills not count because you're in a certain area is a very, very clumsy way to address legitimate issues with the game. I don't believe you can solve these problems with a brute-force tactic like the "yellow zone". While snipers in the redline is frustrating, as are HAVs, they will be mostly unaffected by such a change, unless the change is so egregious that it forces people right into AR range before they can get credit for kills.

Use your yellow line idea for the bases, as well as the loss of gain from farming redlined people in their bases and bases shooting out, however instead of forcing people out, make the MCC's move around the edges of the field. Whenever the MCC crosses over a base it fires on enemies who aren't in cover (obviously the base spawn points would have to be revamped to provide cover without allowing sniping out of the base to be too easy), when it crosses it's home base it fires on any enemies too near it, and if it gets too close to an enemy on the field, it fires on them.

This last bit will prevent snipers and forge gunners from sitting on the edges of the map spamming death from the same spot all match. They will have to move around a lot more.

Having the MCC's move around the map would also provide teams the ability to not spawn in a static location that can be easily camped and farmed.

This would also make battles a lot more frantic and perhaps even more difficult for both sides since the "one side has an advantage on one side of the map" strategies would all go out the window.

The solution of redline sniping is absolutely to change the weapons used in this sense, as the problem isn't redline sniping, it's the ability for certain weapons/vehicles to fire, at extreme ranges, essentially indefinitely, with very limited recourse available for the other team.

,,

Mistaken post (post with actual content in process)